Curse

fenix · May 18, 2007, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Ah but you see, the spammers never sell anything, and rarely post on guru. They're just there spamming 5 lines every time they can. This issue is more that 'traders' have been banned for a couple of messages, while the ACTUAL spammers aren't.

garethporlest18 · May 18, 2007, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

c'mon, it's not like this is Blizzard or something. They'll tell you when they feel it's your priviledged time to know, and not a minute too soon. Who do you think you are that you rate an explanation of the rules so soon after a change? A VIP or something? Wait until they grant you the serenity to know (or else run out of excuses/denials). It's just a game. You are lucky ANet allows you to continue to grace their kingdoms.. Information.. hah.. greedy bastard. Besides, it's all player lies (and player blame) until/unless they decide to disclose. Quit umping on the player bandwagon, you know we all lie about this stuff.
.

ROFL, this is the funniest stuff I heard all day. Grace their kingdoms? HA! I could only be so fortunate that they kick me out. More like grace their slums, hell criminals are above this game.

Now that I got that out of the way.

I think it's good that they are starting to do such things, but way way too late.

Gaile Gray · May 18, 2007, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Hi,

I wanted to explain what happened. When we block people, we have a rather lengthy list of possible reasons. You know the sort: Offensive behavior or Use of a Third-Party Program or, yes, excessive spamming. We had not discussed the matter as a team, and there was some misunderstanding about when and how that type of block was applied. With the growing number of people feeling it's necessary to spam, with more players neglecting (refusing?) to use the trade channels, a moderator, acting with completely reasonable motivations, took action on some of the noticeable "trade spammers." (No offense intended in using that name if you were one of those affected.

)

Now, there's trade spam and there's spambotting. You've seen them both, I'm sure, and I bet you will agree that sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between a professional farmer/seller putting up sales notices and a real person doing so. We'd like to eliminate the commercial sales, but we don't mean to impede fair trade or sales by real players. We'd like to see a whole lot less spam from the legitimate sellers, though. We discussed this yesterday morning with the Support Team in the US and Europe, and we agreed that there are a few things we need to formalize and communicate better to the community on this subject before we exercise actions such as those that took place a few days ago.

Those who contacted us will confirm that their block was lifted. Those who want to trade are welcome to do so. But do be aware that we're deeply concerned about the inability to carry on a normal conversation in towns and outposts because of the sheer volume of WTS and WTB.

Now -- *holds up hand* -- I know the temptation will be to say, "Well, give us an auction house and we won't need to do this." That would be nice, we all agree, but unfortunately, with the many other things we are working on, that's not going to happen in the immediate future. And in the present, and in the future, we'd really like people to be able to both enjoy a conversation and conduct sales.

So we'll discuss things internally, to see if we feel there is a need for GM action of some kind. Before we institute any changes in policy or practice, we will tell you. In the meantime, do the right thing--for you, for others: Use the Trade Channel or consider using one of the excellent fansite trade forums.

Perynne · May 18, 2007, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Grasping Darkness, ignore feature doesn't work that well. There's a limit to how many people you can put on the list. Also it's very annoying to keep the local channel totally turned off because sometimes, you know, people actually talk about useful things there. In Kamadan there are tons of new players who can't ask anything in local just because of all the spam.
Trading is for trade channel, normal chatting is for local, and I think that's how it should be kept and enforced.

I have a feeling that a trading house wouldn't really work any more. People are so used to spamming local chat that most would not like to make that extra click to get to sale central. And all those sellers looking to make quick gold would still think that it's faster to sell in normal outposts rather than a trading house. If a trading house was implemented, then Anet would really have to start enforcing it by banning anyone spamming WTS/WTB on local.

Gaile, glad to hear you guys are aware of the problem.

I hope something can be done about it, even if you're unable to get a trading house for us. I understand that all the new things you're working on take a lot of time to make, but even a small improvement would be nice. Like increasing the limit of characters allowed in the Party Search function for trading, or keeping an eye out and continuing to ban spammers in local.

Patrick Smit · May 18, 2007, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tannim

Excellent point. But with the replies of people saying, ... finally one banned, 1000 more to go

I do not want to effect traders. But in every single town I have been to ... minus Piken Square (near thurs. night), there are more spammers then real traders ... Though there are definately gems/real traders in there ...

SO u suppose that these "spammers" just spam for fun? Comeon, they just wanna trade their wares, but do it in such a way that trading for others is impaired.

Domino · May 18, 2007, 07:11 AM // 07:11

I find this thread hilarious...

don't spam and you won't get banned.

personally I'm glad I don't have to see

WTS RUNESCAPE GOLD 100000000X PST
WTS RUNESCAPE GOLD 100000000X PST
WTS RUNESCAPE GOLD 100000000X PST
WTS RUNESCAPE GOLD 100000000X PST
WTS RUNESCAPE GOLD 100000000X PST
WTS RUNESCAPE GOLD 100000000X PST
WTS RUNESCAPE GOLD 100000000X PST

every time I walk through a city.

Zappa · May 18, 2007, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

(...)

Those who contacted us will confirm that their block was lifted. Those who want to trade are welcome to do so. But do be aware that we're deeply concerned about the inability to carry on a normal conversation in towns and outposts because of the sheer volume of WTS and WTB.

Now -- *holds up hand* -- I know the temptation will be to say, "Well, give us an auction house and we won't need to do this." That would be nice, we all agree, but unfortunately, with the many other things we are working on, that's not going to happen in the immediate future. And in the present, and in the future, we'd really like people to be able to both enjoy a conversation and conduct sales.

So we'll discuss things internally, to see if we feel there is a need for GM action of some kind. Before we institute any changes in policy or practice, we will tell you. In the meantime, do the right thing--for you, for others: Use the Trade Channel or consider using one of the excellent fansite trade forums.

So, basically, yeah they only thought about it now, and are telling us to "suck it up". They wont improve trade method (action house is not the only solution FYI). Yet, they also want less spam in towns. So, I guess it's a Lose/Lose situation.
I always thought the reason behind activating and deactivating chat channels was to give the player the power to ignore what was going on the particular channel. I never had a problem talking to others as theres always the Party Channel, Guild Channel, Whisper.. Yeah I have to turn off General Chat from once in a while to keep the spam out, but it never hurt...
I think I'm just not that pretentious.

Tsk, tsk.
A.Net wants everyone to have a voice in their game, yet they don't have the foundations to support that voice. Like a house with small, weak water pipes. They don't want to buy us better pipes so, we'll need to cut down our water usage.

If a company decides that the best to their customers is suppressing them, for the good of other investments, it's a plain fail.

I suggest you take out that futile Party Search "feature" if you're not going to make it better, take out the mighty storage bonus you've given us, better yet, take away currency from the game altogether, make NPCs with every piece of equipment available for free and thats it.

Honestly, I don't know why you have implemented an economy in a game where you don't even give it the most basic tool to make it happen. "Ups, sorry, you have given us two pretty basic tools: Party Search (although not intentionally for trading) and Trade Channel. Oh wait, but you want the spam cut down, and wont even enlarge the description space in the Party Search feature."

*shrug* Who knows what goes inside their heads?..

Welcome to Guild Wars! The single player RPG where you can chat with your friends!

...

Sir Skullcrasher · May 18, 2007, 05:11 PM // 17:11

I wonder how long before a real solution to this spamming will show up?

master of cookies · May 18, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

well to be honest atleast A-Net are thinking about the problem and reading this thread, just beacuse they havnt changed character limit in party search box doesnt mean they wont in the next few weeks. Id be happy if spammers in local chat got banned or silenced and thats even after being banned for using trade channel myself. less spam is good in local chat! thanks Gaile and GM's for realising the problems that had been caused and (hopefully) starting to fix them.

Stormweaver · May 18, 2007, 06:20 PM // 18:20

To me, spamming is the ultimate worst thing about this game. I am so sick of seeing messages repeated 3, 4 or 5 times in succession in chat. I am sick of seeing buy and sell messages out of the trade channel. I don't understand why Anet hasn't done anything to stop or at least slow chat spamming.

Is it really necessary for a player to spam his message 4 times in 4 seconds in a town where nobody is chatting? Is it really necessary for a player to spam his availability to run a mission 5 times in 10 seconds when there are only 4 other players in the same outpost?

<sigh> sorry. i'm just sick of chat spamming.

RezM · May 18, 2007, 06:31 PM // 18:31

It means don't spam, loser.

Theus · May 18, 2007, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by RezM

It means don't spam, loser.

And how else is a player supposed to sell items ingame?

Please.Tell us.Enlighten us.Why do I get the feeling you're going to use an ingame option that you don't have the slightest clue about?

lennymon · May 18, 2007, 07:07 PM // 19:07

It's so incredibly futile to even try to sell things in game... before HM came out? Maybe... but not anymore. The amount of W T S spam in local has doubled or trippled with only really special items ever getting bought...
Folks, you aren't EVER going to sell that req 11 barbed shortbow of leetness. There're just too many better options. With prices dropping, folks don't need to settle on the spammed junk in towns they can go get exactly what they want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

And how else is a player supposed to sell items ingame?

I'll tell you how, they can't... the dynamic has changed not the rules per se... Nobody wants it right now. I know I'm taking a wait and see how low prices will go before I'd even consider making a big purchase.... And it's certainly not worth 15 minutes of my life to sell something for 2k...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RezM

It means don't spam, loser

ironic, while I agree in spirit with what you are trying not to say, you've wasted everyone's time with your post... just like a spammer.

MrTickle · May 18, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

If people spam WTS/WTB in local chat then they deserve at least a 1 hour mute but not a 72 hour ban...

At least it's not an automatic process as someone is actually there reading the chat. Explains why so many seem to be getting away with it in local chat.

Zappa · May 18, 2007, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormweaver

I am sick of seeing buy and sell messages out of the trade channel.

Lol.

You people are that stubborn, huh? I'm sure you know that you CAN mute the trade channel for yourself, but whatever.

Just like I say.
- A.Net remove money altogether, lets make a game without trading or currency. Everyone seems not to like this aspect of the game.
Lets turn Guild Wars in an action game because, thats what You, the developers, seem to want. So why make something so you can take it back? Why keep a (bad) habit as the only way to achieve something, and later on turn it into a reason to ban someone?
That way you be happy by following your own path, and I'll be happy, playing another game with a decent trade system, and, better yet, without fear of being banned by trying to sell my items.

Please, do what you will, but, for the love of all things, you have to admit: This problem was brought by your own failure to come up with an efficient trading system, everyone knows it deep down, and nothing will change it.

I mean, really, all of you "elite critics" enlighten me with your wisdom. How do you sell stuff? Better yet, do you sell stuff? How do you get money? Directly from drops? Selling everything to the NPCs?
My guess is that you got rich, and don't need to sell items anymore, with lots of time left to harass new players?

Ok, not that bad, but I'm sure you have gold. I'm sure you've sold many stuff through spamming, and yet you are here criticizing others for trying to have gold like you. A bit hypocrite, huh? Tsk, tsk.

I am sick of people being sick with annoying little aspects of videogames that doesn't directly affects them, but bothers them anyway, just because they feel like being bothered.

God damn, people, you are being so biased. How is everyone supposed to sell items? Pm'ing everyone at random? That would be great. Clicking trade in everyone at random? I tell you, that annoys me more than trade spam. A LOT more.
But don't get me wrong! I hate spamming too! I hate it when some guy writes 5 times what he wants to sell in the General Chat.
"I mean, who do they think they are, to be trading in general chat? I use the trade channel, they should use it too!"
Yet, it isn't a reason for a Ban, since we have the message suppressor AND, honestly, I don't blame them.

Everyone knows its a PAIN selling items in GW, there's a lot of people selling stuff at the same time, and we have to be very patient. So who's to blame?
The mass of players that want to make money? I don't think so.

And we take another step "forward".
This time we oppress the masses so that a few rich, fat characters can have their futile chats to everyone to listen, from now and then.

mafia cyborg · May 18, 2007, 11:59 PM // 23:59

anet should just disable copy&paste and buffer read in local chat = problem solved

Jackita · May 19, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Now -- *holds up hand* -- I know the temptation will be to say, "Well, give us an auction house and we won't need to do this." That would be nice, we all agree, but unfortunately, with the many other things we are working on, that's not going to happen in the immediate future. And in the present, and in the future, we'd really like people to be able to both enjoy a conversation and conduct sales.

Use the Trade Channel or consider using one of the excellent fansite trade forums.

But we dont like it

I dont enjoy stay 1 hour or more trying to sell something

When i write:

WTS X Thing for X k's (and press enter)

A lot of people is doing the same thing, so i cant see my offer and anyone else can see it either.

i spend like 3 Hours traveling between Kamadan LA & Kaineng (sometimes Droknar & Ascalon) looking if someone wanna buy something than i have.

The Fansite Trade Forums......

Oh well the FANSITE are this, FANSITE and you can Found A LOT of GW fansites and you cant post your wares in ALL the Fansites (well you can but this could be a pain in the... you know)

GW is a good Game but some people prefer another games because this other game are complete (PvP, PvE, Auction House, Professions/Jobs/Races, etc)

The customer Always Has the reason?

Sorry for my english, but im speak spanish, i could post this same thing in a Spanish Forum, but i dont think someone like Gaile read spanish Forum.

My apologies if i sound rude (dont is my intention) but when i read:

we'd really like people to be able to both enjoy a conversation and conduct sales.

I think "something is wron with Anet"

Amy Awien · May 19, 2007, 07:39 AM // 07:39

A guildie of mine sold a green we farmed within minutes. He never left the scene, but contacted his friends. Networking.

Quote:

A lot of people is doing the same thing, so i cant see my offer and anyone else can see it either.

One can scroll the chat window, people looking for something specific will do that - I know I do, and people looking for just anything will do that to i fsomething interesting catches their eye.

As noted before, trying to sell non-perfect weapons is likely a waste of time, and the same goes for weapons that just are not so wanted or hot. Give them to your heroes, guildies or sell them at the merchant.

PyrAnkh · May 19, 2007, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tannim

Since I was responding to the first post ... as common and expected everywhere on the net that host a forum .... Does this forum have different expectations then normal?

To quote and reply to those who do not follow common flow ...

Post #1

Emphasis mine. He admits to spamming.

Post #14

Emphasis mine. He admits yet again ... *sigh*

Post #92

He gets a little bit more specific. Claiming 2 lines, in the non-trade channel ... hmmm ... have you read this thread at all?

Post #125

Emphasis mine. He went through customer service, and they reiterated the agreement that he AGREED to and kept the ban. Now he comes in here complaining because he wants to back out of the agreement. The solution is simple ... if you don't like what you agreed to, then quit. It's simple. Here's a definition, in case you missed it ... http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agreement

Screenshot posted in post #132, except it is not showing at the time of this post. Ref: http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spamav4.jpg

Post #142 mentions he was unbanned, congrats. Lets hope he learned his lessons and stick with his side of the agreement.

Post #197 mentioned no warning before banned .... ouch

The above are pretty much all the posts he made in this thread, since you missed them.

It is unfortunate that the ban was probably gm made and not automated as there are still children spamming in many cities.

It's really weird. I have seen you replied a few times in this thread, but all of a sudden, you forgot what the guy actually posted when you read my post? Funny how people are like that sometimes.

After seeing how you are serious in your ignorance, I rather educate you then celebrate your ignorance. Please read his posts, I even listed the post numbers for you.

If you want to insult someone, at least check your ignorance at the door first.

Thanks for lining that up. Heres another post.

I didnt admit spamming. I say i entered a few lines, not giving a timespan where i entered those lines in. Yet, i find a FEW lines hardly worth the tag 'spam'. Same message for hours on an end: sure thats spam. Few lines whilst skipping through cities? No, i dont consider that spam.

Taala · May 19, 2007, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zappa

Lol.

You people are that stubborn, huh? I'm sure you know that you CAN mute the trade channel for yourself, but whatever.

Which would probably be the reason why he said he's sick of seeing buy and sell messages out of the trade channel. But I'm sure your helpful advice of turning the trade chat off makes him feel better.